Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics

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Olympic Games Milan & Cortina 365 days left 2026 Winter Los Angeles 1254 days left 2028 Summer French Alps 1824 days left 2030 Winter Brisbane 2724 days left 2032 Summer

Archives Archive 1 – August 23, 2004 – April 5, 2006 Archive 2 – April 22, 2006 – October 24, 2006 Archive 3 – November 20, 2006 – March 23, 2007 Archive 4 – March 28, 2007 – June 5, 2007 Archive 5 – June 5, 2007 – July 5, 2007 Archive 6 – July 9, 2007 – November 3, 2007 Archive 7 – November 10, 2007 – July 30, 2008 Archive 8 – August 1, 2008 – August 24, 2008 Archive 9 – August 24, 2008 – February 8, 2009 Archive 10 – February 17, 2009 – April 23, 2009 Archive 11 – April 23, 2009 – March 25, 2010 Archive 12 – March 26, 2010 – April 26, 2011 Archive 13 – April 22, 2011 – August 20, 2012 Archive 14 – August 19, 2012 – July 9, 2015 Archive 15 – July 24, 2015 – August 23, 2016 Archive 16 – August 22, 2016 – April 3, 2018 Archive 17 – January 30, 2018 – August 27, 2020 Archive 18 – September 2, 2020 – August 26, 2021 Archive 19 – August 30, 2021 – November 29, 2022 Archive 20 – January 11, 2023 – Archive index

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Good article reassessment for Marshall Islands at the Olympics

Marshall Islands at the Olympics has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 22:49, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Olympic record

Good people, please fix this list. It's been unsourced for almost 15 years. Bearian (talk) 01:31, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

I mean... it's a list article. What needs sourcing? Probably needs an update for newer sports, and maybe a split between Summer/Winter games for ease of navigation, but I'm not sure sourcing is the issue here. Primefac (talk) 12:52, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Alexander Zverev

Alexander Zverev has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 17:18, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Chris Skelley

Hi, the prose in this article needs updating, particularly in the judo career section, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 21:08, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

List of first Olympic medalists by National Olympic Committee

I created List of first Olympic medalists by National Olympic Committee back in December in my user space and I just moved it to main space now. Would appreciate any help in filling out a few of the missing pieces that I wasn't able to source on my own. Part of my problem was that some NOCs won events on the same day and, without the event schedule, I'm unable to determine who technically won the event first. With that said, the years NOCs are listed under should be correct. Pinging @Arconning, as I believe they had an interest in this list as well. Hey man im josh (talk) 20:37, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

I dont understand why ROC (Russian Olympic Committee athletes) are listed seperately if Russian Olympic Committee (RUS) is already listed. Pelmeen10 (talk) 21:47, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

@Pelmeen10: For the same reason the Russian Empire (RU1) and Soviet Union (URS) are listed prior to Russia (RUS), their medals are counted separately in overall totals. Hey man im josh (talk) 21:57, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Those are understandable, but it literally says Russian Olympic Commitee in its name. It's not an actual NOC. I suggest removing all non-NOCs, including Mixed Team. Pelmeen10 (talk) 22:10, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Why? It's relevant in that the medals are counted for different groups, and I think that's pretty useful and relevant information. Do you think it's an improvement by removing said information @Pelmeen10? I'd argue it's misleading since they're treated as separate groups, and your link doesn't say it's not treated as an NOC, since an NOC is required for athletes to participate under. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:17, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Sorry what? Anything that gets added to Wikipedia needs to be sourced, not the other way around (sources to remove something). I already gave you Olympics website, ROC is not listed. So I ask where is it said that Mixed Team and ROC are actually considered as NOCs? Mixed teams at the Olympics and Russian Olympic Committee athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics - these articles sure doesnt mention it. What is NOC - National Olympic Committee, this article is linked in the lead. Pelmeen10 (talk) 15:17, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

@Pelmeen10: The sources at the top of the article (from the IOC) state that competitors must be part of an NOC, if you can show sources that say otherwise I'd be interested in those and improving the article based on that. As for using the Olympics website as a source showing those weren't NOCs, you should note that Russia and Belarus' NOCs are also not currently listed, but that does not mean that those groups did not compete. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:24, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

I don't see those at Category:National Olympic Committees or Category:Former National Olympic Committees. Why? Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:58, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

@Pelmeen10: I could not tell you for sure, but it may just be that an article doesn't exist. Right now I'm working based off the verifiability information available to me. I've spent a good bit of time working more on the article today as well, so if you have any suggestions on wording or aspects that can be improved, or a source that helps with this aspect of the article, I'm all ears. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:04, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

The article doesn't accurately cover the situation for at least the first few modern Games. Athletes competing at those Games did not represent National Olympic Committees. There was no such thing. In Australia's case, for example, Edwin Flack is recorded as it's first gold medallist, in 1896, but Australia didn't even become a country until 1901, so obviously no NOC existed. I'm certain other inaccuracies like that are in your tables. Perhaps you need to add some qualifying words about those earlier Games. HiLo48 (talk) 23:47, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

@HiLo48: See the reference used for Australia, which is listed on Olympics.com and reflects this. That same reference also shows an IOC recognition date of 1895. Australia not being a country independent of the Commonwealth is also not particularly relevant, as we see quite a few examples of this, such as Canada, which did not gain independence til 1982. It's also worth noting that Canada was not represented at the 1900 games for example, despite a Canadian athlete participating, hence why the 1904 games are credited as the first Olympic medal that Canada won. They were not represented by the nation but were representing another nation in that case. There are a lot of nuances, but I don't think it's fair to claim inaccuracies without any proof whatsoever. Hey man im josh (talk) 02:32, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

It's not the details of Australia in the Olympics that bother me. I'm well aware of that history. It's your article's emphasis on NOCs, and the implication that one had to be nominated by one to compete at the Olympics. While that's now the case, it wasn't always. HiLo48 (talk) 03:09, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

@HiLo48: This is not "my" article (see WP:OWN). I'm also not sure what you mean by nominated by an NOC, that's not terminology I'm familiar with. But, in regards to your original point, you alluded to factual inaccuracies which you've not yet substantiated. At the end of the day I think this article presents interesting and useful information, and if you can explain what's apparently wrong, or improve it yourself, I'd be appreciative or more than happy to contribute to said effort. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:51, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

This is turning into a difficult conversation for me. You seem to be misrepresenting or ignoring everything I've written. I have said what I want to say, which isn't what you claim I've said. Read my comments again please. HiLo48 (talk) 08:56, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

@HiLo48: WP:AGF. As mentioned, my goal is improvement of this article. I wouldn't have posted here if I didn't want feedback. If you think I'm misunderstanding you you're welcome to try to explain what you mean in different words and I'll continue to try to understand what you're getting at. Hey man im josh (talk) 10:57, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Let's start with the sentence that says "Athletes competing at the Olympics do so representing National Olympic Committees (NOCs) and cannot enter the Olympic Games as individual competitors or without the authority of an NOC." That is true now, but it wasn't always the case. HiLo48 (talk) 22:35, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

@HiLo48: What are your proposed changes? Again, entirely open to changes to improve the article and make it more accurate. I've been working on promoting Olympic medal table lists to featured list status and my hope is that, long term, I also get this one to featured list status. But that's why I brought it here, knowing it could still be improved upon. Hey man im josh (talk) 22:40, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Well, first, we have to change the article's name, to something like "List of first Olympic medallists by Nation". Then perhaps start the third sentence with "While it wasn't always the case, athletes competing at the Olympics today do so representing National Olympic Committees (NOCs)... We then need a sentence explaining how it worked for the early Games, and I'm not sure I know enough to help there with certainty. A read of 1896 Summer Olympics tells me "Some of the athletes would take part in the Games because they happened to be in Athens at the time the Games were held, either on holiday or for work (e.g., some of the British competitors worked for the British embassy)." That suggests that pretty much anyone could rock up and have a go. More research may be needed. HiLo48 (talk) 00:52, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

@HiLo48: I'm not against changing the title, but I'm strongly opposed to changing it to "by nation". Nation is typically used as a synonym for a country and plenty of teams haven't been representing a country. If anything, by team would be more appropriate.

I think your proposed wording is a bit too ambiguous, but I'm not arguing it's not on the right track. We need to properly reflect the recognition of delegations (by delegation might be a better title now that I'm writing this out). Essentially, I'm arguing that until anyone can provide wording and references that refute the IOC sources, or explain when this rule came into effect and predated it, I'm of the mindset that this is the most accurate based on the current information I've come across/what's been presented in discussions. Again, it may not be perfectly accurate, but it's the most accurate based on what's been made available from sources for now.

As for the implication that anyone could just compete, even if they did so, it seemed they had to represent a delegation and it wasn't always for the country they were from. For instance, George Orton was a Canadian who participated in the 1900 Summer Games who won two medals, but he was representing the US when he did so and Canada did not send a delegation until 1904. For this reason, Olympics.com reflected that Canada's first medal was won in 1904 in lacrosse instead of by Orton. Michel Théato also competed for the French at those games, but his nationality has been disputed and he's said to be the first Olympic medalist from Luxembourg.

Henry Kerr is another example. They were the first New Zealand born athlete to win an Olympic medal, but did so representing Australasia at the 1908 Summer Olympics. I'm sure I could find more examples with the number of country splits, particularly with Soviet countries. Points like this are why I think it's important to be listed by team, as opposed to by country. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:25, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

So I've actually had a reply from the IOC when I asked them about this. From 1908 onwards entries were made through the NOC concerned so it's usually simple to work out which country an athlete was representing. For 1896-1904 they count whichever club or association they belonged to as being his nationality. Orton, although being Canadian, was entered on behalf of his US university so will be listed as American. Topcardi (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for chiming in @Topcardi! Did they happen to point you towards any documentation that we can find on the web about this? I do believe you're correct based on the information I've come across (but I didn't feel comfortable writing it that way and didn't have the sources to back it up, and wasn't aware of exactly when this became a thing), but I'd like to be able to cite something to make a change/clarification regarding this. 1908 lines up with the various bits that I've gone through and read, and this mystery/aspect is part of why I struggled working on the 1904 medal table. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:47, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Before getting into the fact many notes and details are likely needed beyond a simple list, for clarity, I am not sure what the point of this listicle is. All NOCs (and other participating groups) have articles for the history of their participation that surely mention first medalists. In terms of Notability, are there sources that discuss ‘first Olympic medalists by nation’, as a topic or similar? We aren’t a repository for all Olympic facts. Kingsif (talk) 13:18, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

@Kingsif: I agree more notes and details are needed, but I think this is still fit for main space in its current state, just with more clarifying details and facts needed.

As for notability, country's first-time medalists, and first-time gold medalists, are very often discussed in RS, and I'm quite confident this passes WP:NLIST. This is something that I've become quite aware of as part of my effort to promote Summer and Winter Olympic medal tables to featured list status. Information regarding both first-time medalists for an NOC and first-time gold medalists is typically included in these lists, for which there is RS used to verify said information. As for the main articles mentioning it, you'd be surprised how few actually do. This has been a part of my frustration when working on promoting these medal tables. A lot of the overall country at the Olympics articles are woefully under developed, and it's a damn shame. A country winning their first Olympic medal is a pretty big deal, and we see a lot of coverage when it happens in modern games. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:33, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks Josh, could some of the RS you mention then be used in the listicle? This may happen in conjunction with some kind of expansion or restructuring, but as it stands, most of the sources are just primary NOC (or IOC) lists of medalists, which isn’t indicating that notability. Kingsif (talk) 13:50, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

@Kingsif: I took the easy way out for this list where I could by using IOC sources, knowing they were in the same place and it was easy to find the bulk of them that way. Perhaps I did a disservice to the article by focusing it that way, but I prefer to highlight the specific nation in the source. Again, that may be a disservice instead of actually being better focused, like I originally intended, but something like these references ([1], [2], [3], [4]) could actually be used instead of the approach I've taken. There are more, but I wanted to just share a bit to show that the subject matter is something that's wildly discussed in RS. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:08, 6 February 2025 (UTC)